English below!
Liebe Freunde und Kolleg*innen,
vor ein paar Tagen habe ich ein Interview mit dem Komponisten Sandeep Bhagwati über vocal ecotism geführt. Eine von mir bearbeitete Version dieses Gesprächs findet sich hier:
Im englischen Teil dieses Blogbeitrags gibt es eine kurze Zusammenfassung des Gesprächs.
Hier ein Themenüberblick:
0:00 – 2:40
Begrüßung und Einführung (von mir)
2:40 – 5:20
Musik in schwierigen Zeiten – eine Konferenz in Kanada
5:20 – 19:35
Die Stimme in der Musik/Alles hat eine Stimme
19:35 – 28:10
Zu wem und was wir singen
28:10 – 37:30
Das indische Konzept einer unhörbaren Musik der Welt
37.30 – 42:15
Die Aufgabe der Kunst
42:15 – 51:50
Natürliche und unnatürliche Klänge?
Ich habe Sandeep Bhagwati auf der Konferenz in Potsdam getroffen, von der ich in einem früheren Blogbeitrag berichte. Schon nach dem ersten Kennenlernen war klar, dass ihn nicht nur sehr ähnliche Fragen umtreiben, sondern dass seine Suche nach Antworten für vocal ecotism sehr bereichernd sein kann.
Ich empfehle einen Blick auf die Seite https://matralab.hexagram.ca/,
einer künstlerischen Forschungsplattform, die von ihm gegründet wurde. Bhagwati hat deutsche und indische Wurzeln, arbeitet als Professor an der Concordia University in Montréal/Kanada. Auf youtube gibt es eine ganze Reihe von Aufnahmen mit seiner Musik und eine sehr informative Vorstellung (auf französisch mit engl. Untertiteln): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38gph2IIdi0.
In dem Interview fallen zwei Namen: Michael Edgerton, ein Stimmkünstler und Autor des Buches „The 21st-Century-Voice“, das es meines Wissens noch nicht auf deutsch gibt. Außerdem der Name des in Köln nicht ganz unbekannten Rupert Huber, der einige Jahre Leiter des WDR-Rundfunkchors gewesen ist. Huber ist für uns besonders von Interesse, weil er Gesänge erforscht, die sich an Pflanzen richten, also in denen stimmlich versucht wird, mit der Pflanzenwelt in Kontakt zu treten. Genaueres findet sich auf seiner Website: http://www.rupert-huber.net/. Für die Frage, wie in einer Stimmkunst für die versehrte Welt das Verhältnis zwischen Kunstschaffenden und dem Publikum gestaltet sein sollte, fand ich das folgende Video von ihm sehr anregend: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2YeJJxAYg.
Im Nachgespräch, das nicht mehr Teil der Aufnahme ist, hat Sandeep Bhagwati zwei Künstler*innen erwähnt, die für das Thema der Sonifikation als Kunstform – die sich ja als ziemlich fragwürdig gezeigt hat – eher vielversprechende Beispiele geben.
Luther Adams mit einer Arbeit aus Alaska „The Place where you go to listen”, die bei der Inuittraditiion ansetzt, zu einem Gletscher zu gehen um ihm zuzuhören und dadurch Informationen über das bevorstehende Wetter zu erhalten. Daraus hat Adams eine Echtzeit-Klanginstallation mit Sounds von Gletschern entwickelt. https://www.johnlutheradams.net/writings/by/20
Außerdem Deborah Carruthers, die ebenfalls mit Klängen von Gletschern arbeitet, dabei aber mit Mikrophonen in die Tiefenschichten des Eises eindringt. Dabei hat sie offenbar Techniken entwickelt, die von Wissenschaftlern übernommen wurden.
https://www.deborahcarruthers.com/artist-statement.html
Dear friends and colleagues,
A few days ago I did an interview with the composer Sandeep Bhagwati about vocal ecotism. The interview is in German. I have done a written synopsis in English. I hope this gives you an impression!
I met Sandeep Bhagwati at the conference in Potsdam, which I reported on in an earlier blog post. After meeting him for the first time, it was already clear that he was not only concerned with very similar questions, but that his search for answers could be very enriching for vocal ecotism.
I recommend taking a look at the website https://matralab.hexagram.ca/,
an artistic research platform that he founded. Bhagwati has German and Indian roots and works as a professor at Concordia University in Montréal/Canada. There is a whole series of recordings of his music on youtube and a very informative introduction (in French ! with English subtitles):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38gph2IIdi0.
Two names are mentioned in the interview: Michael Edgerton, a voice artist and author of the book "The 21st-Century-Voice", which as far as I know is not yet available in German. Then there is the name of Rupert Huber, who is not entirely unknown in Cologne and who was the director of the WDR radio choir for several years. Huber is of particular interest to us because he explores songs that are directed at plants, i.e. in which vocal attempts are made to make contact with the plant world. More details can be found on his website: http://www.rupert-huber.net/.
For the question of how the relationship between artists and the audience should be organised in vocal art for the wounded world, I found the following video by him very inspiring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2YeJJxAYg.
In the follow-up conversation, which is not part of the recording, Sandeep Bhagwati mentioned two artists who provide rather promising examples of the topic of sonification as an art form - which has proven to be rather questionable.
Luther Adams with a work from Alaska, "The Place where you go to listen", which is based on the Inuit tradition of going to a glacier to listen to it and thereby obtain information about the upcoming weather. From this, Adams has developed a real-time sound installation with sounds from glaciers. https://www.johnlutheradams.net/writings/by/20
Deborah Carruthers also works with the sounds of glaciers, but uses microphones to penetrate the deep layers of ice. She has apparently developed techniques that have been adopted by scientists.
https://www.deborahcarruthers.com/artist-statement.html.
Short Summary of the Interview
0:00 – 2:40 min
Welcome and introduction (me)
2:40 – 5:20 min
Music in difficult times
Conference in Canada this year curated by S. Baghwati. Two examples: A report from a musician who installed a synthesizer in Beirut that was used by people from the neighbourhood. A report from a musicologist who explored the role of music and singing in Ruanda during and after the genocide. Traditionalist singing was more common by the “slaughterer” and the cosmopolits were open to other forms of singing.
5:20 – 19:35 min
Voice in Music/Everything has a voice
Some aspects of a text/speech that he gave at a conference in Instanbul about “Voice in transtraditional contexts”.
Everything has a voice and we are able to hear them but have forgotten and unlearned to do so. Even musicians don´t do it. But relearning again to listen to the sounds of everything in the world and to let these voices into our voice maybe is a promising way to get beyond the damaged world to something less wounded.
Something that occurred in Romaticism but was forgotten soon again because of all the technical new possibilities that were found in Romantic music.
The voice is our instrument of redemption (Erlösung)! Especially in Pop-music (because of the highly technical circumstances, but also in all other forms of music it is the voice that allows us to find redemption from all the guilt that occurred because we stopped to listen to the whole world.
Music is the utilisation of the acoustic world for human purposes. (Musik ist die Nutzbarmachung der akustischen Welt für menschliche Zwecke.) We exploit the acoustic world. But we exceed our competences when we make sounds available. (Wir überschreiten unsere Kompetenzen, wenn wir Töne verfügbar machen).
In societies that are not as much working in this instrumental form people are aware of this problem and find ways to justify or ask for permission to do so. In other words they look for integration of their actions into the bigger context. Something that “we” don´t do any longer. Only our voices are not part of this process of exploitation. The voice is not an instrument!
But in New classical music even the voice became an instrument that became available for the needs and purposes of the composers. (Michael Edgerton)
19:35 – 28:10 min
To whom and what we sing
Q.: In my words I say the same thing in this way: Everything sings but not necessarily to us.
In the history of singing it seems to me that for most of the times human beings did not sing first of all to other human beings but to non-human forces and beings. Do you think we can learn on an artistic level to do this again?
A.: Yes, my example is the former leader of the WDR Choir Rupert Huber. He is not only a highly educated musician but also a Tibetan Shaman and experiments with the idea of singing to plants. Over years he sings regularly to the plants around his house and looks if there is any reaction of the plants, not an immediate one of course but in the long run. I am not sure what to think of this idea but it shows an attitude to the world that we lack in our usual way of relating the world. I would talk here about humility.
28:10 – 37:30 min
The Indian concept of the eternal unaudible music
Q.: You mention in one of the videos I saw on youtube an Indian concept that says that there is a sort of music always and everywhere and the task of musicians is to make this music audible. I wonder now if this background music changes through the ecological changements in the world and if we are able to hear this changing of the music as well.
A.: This is an appealing concept but I prefer the idea that we have to learn to surf on the different waves and forces that have an effect on me and us. It is a very complex system of forces and learning to surf on it seems to me the task for artists of our times. In order to not fall into the trap of simple and undercomplex answers for the problems we are facing.
37.30 – 42:15 min
The Task for the Arts
Q.: Is there a task for the arts in the process of getting into a way of surviving that is less destructive for the world?
A.: Yes and No. Art is part of the program of dominating the world. The European idea of art emerged at the same time when Europe started to conquer the world. This coincidence is not by accident. Art is integrated in this context of domination.
For me the question seems to be: How can we as artist step out of the role that we have in our societies without losing the richness of what art has done during the last centuries? Can we think of another form of existence that includes this knowledge, practices etc.? This is a very big question that cannot be answered by a single person.
There are doubts that the smaller task of creating emotional effects on the public will work. People who go into these concerts usually have this emotional sensitivity already.
42:15 – 51:50 min
Natural and Unnatural sounds?
Q.: Dealing with soundscapes which are never “natural” but always a combination of so called natural and human made sounds. Does this play a role in your aritistic work?
A.: Yes, very much. I remind you on the world soundscape project of people around Murray Schaeffer who started in Canada in the 1979ies. They recorded soundscapes in a way where they did not try to isolate a purely natural sound but wanted to include all the sounds who are in a situation.
He also made a project at a lake somewhere in the Canadian countryside with opera music. Including all the conditions that this spot offered.
(…)
There is no reason to exclude any kind of sound. They all contain certain forces.
- End-
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